Camp Bow Wow, a sort of combination day camp/B&B for dogs, was started in 2000 by a dog loving entrepreneur named Heidi Ganahl. The business is a franchise, a form of ownership in which a franchiser grants a franchisee the right to use its brand name and processes and sell its products or services. Sue Ryan left the corporate world in 2004 to take over a Camp Bow Wow franchise in Boulder, Colorado. To reduce the demands placed on her as the sole manager, Ryan developed other employees’ managerial skills so that they could be promoted and share in the managerial responsibilities of the business.
>> The biggest misconception I had about managers was that they sat around in offices and kind of did nothing.
>> My name is Candace Stathis and I'm a manager here at Camp Bow Wow.
>> I was really wrong, it's a lot of work, it's a lot of managing people and working on your own people skills and making sure everybody's organized and where they're supposed to be at the right time. Dogs are pretty simple, they're happy and loving and they're really just kind of sweet, whereas people are a little more difficult, they're way harder to train.
>> Yeah, so before this, I worked for GE for years and year and before that, oil and gas and I was in manager position through most of that.
>> Hi, I'm Sue, the owner of Camp Bow in Boulder, Colorado.
>> But I had this manager that was just miserable to work for but taught me an incredible amount. She was one of those people that took joy in making me uncomfortable. Every time I went into in her office with a question, if I was up here looking at the big picture, she'd ask me questions about the detail and the next time I'd go in and ask, you know, questions about the detail and she'd want to know about the big picture so I -- we were always on different pages but when I look back on it, I learned more from her probably than anybody else but it was painful. So I bought the camp two and half years ago and when I started, it was just me and a staff that was all at the same level and a very flat structure. I definitely went into it wanting my own more relaxed culture, not just for my staff but for myself as well. Once I started getting people like Candace, where I could start promoting them and mentoring them into more lead positions, I did it.
I want to be the best. I want to be the best of all the facilities like this in Boulder; I want to be the best in the Camp Bow Wow system as a whole. I mean my expectations are that the customer, even if they're dealing with a really difficult problem with us that they come away knowing that we've done everything we could to address it.
>> For a half day, okay, perfect.
>> I think the big thing that we've had to react to is that people are still spending money on bringing their dogs in but they're expecting a whole lot more for their dollars so the level of customer service has to be that much better and the level of our offerings has to match their expectations.
>> The hardest part of my job as a manager is trying to juggle the customer service side with the dog side so making sure that the customers are happy but also that we're doing what we need to do to keep the dogs safe and happy.
>> The model for most Camp Bow Wows is the camp counselors do a little bit of everything so they do -- they take care of the dogs, they answer the phones, they book reservations, do the front desk, the works and I had a lot of people on staff who were fantastic with the dogs and miserable with customer service or good with the customers but couldn't run a credit card properly. One of the best things I did for this camp and Candace was a part of it was establishing a position where she's here in the mornings and then she leaves, she comes back in the afternoons.
>> Customer service, it has to be effective as opposed to efficient because it's important for them to know that you care and that you care about their dogs and if you're just trying to be efficient, then that's not going to want to make them want to come back and it's not going to make them feel like you know them or that you know their dog. They want to know how their dog did and they want to know if they got along and if they didn't get along, then, you know, with other dogs, then we need to let them know and we need to do it in a way that, you know, is going to convey the best message to them.
>> I can see that sort of tension, the efficiency -- you're almost tripping over those two things every time a line of customers is out here waiting to get their dogs 'cause you're trying to do the customer service and make them feel like that personal connection that we talked about before but you're also trying to get the dogs out here quickly and get the payments done and so I think she balances that literally every time she checks out a dog.
>> There were a couple things on my list for self-improvement; I think everybody has a couple. The big thing I'm learning to make more time for is making sure I really coach my team, making sure that if there are problems, even between people or between their interactions with the dogs, that I'm going to make time to sit down with them and just talk it over and give them ways to kind of narrow that in and kind of improve on that, as opposed to just, you know, worrying about all the little operation of things that we have to get done. Probably my biggest one is being more patient, making sure that I'm patient with my team, that because I said it once doesn't mean that they understood it completely and that, you know, I need to work on that as a manager to try to be more effective with them.
>> I mean the difference in my experience from two years ago to today is hard to even put into words because it was just me doing absolutely everything. I was consumed with the business and now I've got a management team that supports me, I have a management team that takes a lot of that burden off of me so it's easier for me to kind of put boundaries around work for myself on a personal level and it's hard to even describe the difference, it's huge.
>> The way that Black Diamond is run, I don't really consider this the American way, I consider Black Diamond an extension of the attitude, the culture, the ethos, and the values of the life defining mountain sports that we were founded to serve. Hi, my name is Peter Metcalf. I'm the CEO and lead founder of Black Diamond. Very early on in the beginning of the company the sports of climbing, mountaineering, alpinism and alpine skiing were relatively small at that time. They've grown dramatically. However, if you aggregated the global demand for that product then you could have a fairly meaningful business. So from that recognition and understanding the amount of money that goes into research and development, commercializing a product, and recognize it to be competitive, to do what we really wanted to do we had to think globally. It was going to be about finding these global markets through finding other people who shared our passion, who were young embryonic business people in many cases who wanted to get into the business because they shared that passion, they knew the markets, they knew the space, and could develop a business as a distributor for us. And as time went on we did begin to recognize that nobody really cares about Black Diamond as much as Black Diamond people do, and for that reason we would have to take charge ultimately of the businesses that we were, the business we were conducting overseas through independent distributors. And there was also a recognition that to be the same brand in Europe or in Asia as we were in North America, we would have to be something slightly different because of cultural values, cultural interpretations.
>> In Salt Lake, like every two to three months stay here for one week to two weeks and but we work together on a daily basis. My name's Thomas Hodel, I'm from Switzerland. Born in Lucerne. Doing outdoor sports were, was always a big part of my life so a big passion of me and that's why I'm here working at Black Diamond sharing that passion and I have two roles at the moment. On a global view I'm responsible for all the ski categories, so together with the team here we define strategies and directions for all the categories which belong to the ski side. And then in Europe I'm the European Category Director so the role there is to make sure whatever we do here works also in Europe and the European needs are covered. And it takes a long time to really figure out the differences in Europe and it's every country has a different culture, mentality. Having that European perspective, I think that's a, that's definitely asset I can bring into this glob- into this company and help this company to become more global and to address those needs better.
>> What is most important to the success of Black Diamond is our unique culture and in all of the, in all of our locations the people that we've put in place there to lead those businesses, they all have a real passion for these activities. They have spent substantial time here. They've been immersed in this culture. They see how we operate. At our Asian facility that we built as a Greenfield project eight or nine years ago, what we did right in the process of hiring, right when we started, was we got people, anybody like you have to learn to repel, repel off the roof. We'd do weekend events where we'd take them hiking. So we're instilling in folks in a myriad of ways what the BD attitude and philosophy is towards life, towards work, collegiality, cooperation. You're only as strong as your weakest member. You have to have implicit trust and confidence in the competency of your partners.
>> So yeah having been in Asia for almost seven years it's a very dynamic culture, especially in China. There's a strong sense of change. There's a strong sense of growth. My name is Vindi Agher [assumed spelling]. Actually you pronounce it as Vindi Agher, but that's difficult so Vindi Agher, I go with Vindi Agher. I'm the VP of Manufacturing here at Black Diamond. Our business is really global. Our customers are global. And our manufacturing is definitely global as well. So yeah we own our own factory in Zhuhai. The products that we assemble and produce in the factory in Zhuhai are also part of this protective products that we use, that will be used in climbing and mountaineering so the quality needs to be good. But also we want to ensure that it's been done in a good way. So we control it from start to finish which means how we treat the people, how we manufacture, and how we run the organization that we ensure that everything is done in the right way.
>> Then another part of our business when it comes down to the soft goods, that is made what we call in the trade OEMs, original equipment manufacturers. Our people, our engineers-- in this case also my daughter, she's a developer of the apparel line-- she is spending weeks at a time at these factory partners in a place like Vietnam or China or Bangladesh and I would not send a 26 year old, my 26 year old daughter to spend time and be in these factories if I weren't comfortable with them. But more importantly, we have a certification and compliance process. We have auditors that go into these factories. We have a very strict guideline of ethical sourcing requirements. So we check these factories. We're not at some sweatshop. The factories that we're in, I think of the apparel factory in Bangladesh, the people get three meals a day, there's healthcare, there's English language, there's money for additional education, it's well ventilated, well lit. It's clean. It's safe. Because that's very important to us and what our values are. Being a global operation brings with it incredible opportunities for growth, for unique insights, for innovation, for just thinking differently than you would otherwise think. It also is taxing, time consuming. It demands that you are constantly questioning your, we're Americans so our American sort of perspective on things. It requires us, if we want to be true to being global, to not just nod at being global but create a true global management team, make sure that that team is part of the leadership team and part of the decision making process. Because being global is about more than just selling globally. If you really want to be a global brand, you have to think globally. And that's easy to say and harder to do.
Summary: Barcelona Restaurant Group is always trying to attract and retain only those employees who reinforce its service-oriented culture and provide top-quality customer service. The manager being interviewed in the video is constantly recruiting and hiring new employees and letting low performers and poor fits go. He also tries to provide job candidates with a realistic description of the company’s expectations to ensure that they know what they would be getting into if they took a job with the company.
>> It's funny, when I got hired I had to define the philosophy. I figured the more I say it and the more I preach it and the more people I hire and tell that to, eventually that would happen. And I think we're getting there three years later. Human resources is one of the most important things we do in our business. You can't train people to be enthusiastic, nice, fun, great people. We have to hire that. And this is a transient business. So, people are constantly moving. So, the minute you stop looking you're actually sliding backwards. So, we're always hiring. And we're always firing. My name is Scott. I'm the COO for Barcelona Restaurant Group. I think in the three years I've worked here only one or two managers out of quite a few have quit. However, we've turned over probably 60 to 70% of management in the past three years. And that is because we were not afraid to let people go. We demand a certain level of quality. And we're continuously raising the bar on what our expectations are. And the other thing is this is a high burnout business. People burn out. Somebody who was great a year ago may not be great this year. You guys are famous for friendly service. I mean this is how you built the business. This is how you guys went from a losing restaurant to a restaurant that is making money that's in the game with everybody else. And I'm getting some signs. They did not feel welcome by D.J. They love Barcelona, but they said it just didn't feel like Barcelona to them.
>> That's what they perceived it to be. That is what it was. I'm not, I'm not denying that from any standpoint. I just saw him hustling and doing a really good --
>> Well, let's put it another way. D.J. can be good. Right now he's not. So, Yeah, so have somebody else there or make him real good, real fast.
>> If you think it's somebody who's got, you know, who has got the ability, happy in the kitchen, then you owe it to them to spend a night, two nights, three nights glued to them. Figure it out.
>> So, we got to just double our efforts. Does everybody have a Craigslist ad in right now for servers?
>> I need bussers. I just hired servers. I need bussers.
>> OK. We're always hiring. We're always, keep the ads running. That's our philosophy. We're always bringing in. We're always calling out the bottom 20%. There's always somebody better out there than our worst servers. I have an interview every day. I interview people every single day. You guys should be too. That's how you get better. You hire your way out of your problems because we can train people all day, but we can't find happy people with good attitudes. We can't train that into people. Either they are or they aren't. Human resources is the biggest thing we do. And I really think for any company that is involved in customer service it is the most important thing you can do is have the right people in front of your customers. You don't have to have the greatest resume in the world to make it into the interview. I'll have as many as four to six interviews a day. They last 20 minutes. I don't take a long interview. I don't take a long interview because I don't believe I get anything out of the actual conversation. I've hired too many people that I thought were amazing in an interview, and they ended up being a dud and vice versa. I do more talking than they do quite often in the interview because I am trying to just kind of get across the philosophy, who we are, what we're going to do, and I've got the spiel pretty well nailed now. But my process is a three-stage process. Interview them. Send them out on a shop. I send prospective management, whether I like them or not, even if I know I'm not going to hire them I still send them on the shop. And I give them $100 allowance and tell them to go out to the restaurants, one or two of the restaurants if possible and eat a few tapas, sit down, have a couple drinks, and write me an essay. It lets me see what is important to them within the restaurant because I think we, as professionals, in this industry cannot just go to a restaurant and not pay attention to what's going on whether, it drives my wife crazy, but I see everything. And I have to make a conscious choice not to get annoyed by it. So, I try to tap into that with our candidates. I also get a sense of their level of education, of their intelligence, of their ability to complete a task. There's a lot of other ancillary things that come out of that process, how long it takes them to do it, whether it's two weeks later, whether it's the next day, how excited they are. And I think they get something out of it too because sometimes these candidates come in blind. They don't know our restaurant group or, you know, they might be from New York. They might be from somewhere else, and they're driving in for the interview. So, this introduces them to the brand. So, they're learning about us at the same time. If it's a good shop, it doesn't have to be a great shop, if it's a good shop I'll go to the Stage 3, which is I want you to pretend like you've worked for us for six months, and I want to see who you are. I want to see you commanding the floor, making friends with the guests, talking to the staff. I want to see who you would be for me. If they do a good job on that, at that point we start talking about a job.
>> Would you pass your own test? Would you hire you?
>> That's a good question. I think I would. Well, I don't know. I don't know if I would have the floor presence that I demand out of my managers. I am not sure that I would be a great floor manager for Barcelona.
Summary: Until the late 1990s, Brad John and John Sencion worked in different areas of New York’s fashion industry. During a flight from New York to Paris in 1998, the weary travelers came up with an idea for a one-stop travel shop targeted at fashion-forward globetrotters like themselves. They called it Flight 001 and began selling guidebooks, cosmetics, laptop bags, luggage, electronic gadgets, passport covers, and other consumer products. Now, Flight 001 is one of the most exciting businesses in the industry.
In addition to selling useful travel merchandise, the New York-based retailer offers a unique shopping experience: Flight 001 stores resemble airplane fuselages tricked out with retro airport décor and accessories. In the years to come, the founders expect to be in every major city in the United States, Europe, and Asia.
Cofounder Brad John is determined to make Flight 001 the international authority on travel, but ambitious plans will require changes to the company’s staffing, merchandising, and financial planning. With all the talk about expansion and new product lines, it will be increasingly important that Flight 001 not become distracted from what makes it special in the first place: location, design, and an impeccable product line.
>> With all the changes in the airline policies charging for check-in now, are you seeing a difference with customers looking for carryon?
>> Yeah. We get a lot more requests now for the carryon luggage. They want something they can take with them. They don't want to deal with the headache of checking a bag. They just want something light that's easy to carry on with them. Something around this size, a 21 --
>> I think that one of the big reasons we're successful in keeping people at a very high level of dedication and motivation in our stores is that they really feel a personal connection with people at the corporate level. My name is Emily Griffin and I manage Crew Development for Flight One. They can call one of the owners on the phone if they want and that person will, you know, John or Brad, will answer their questions. There's really an open door with every single person here. So I think that they both feel then a personal connection to the company and a personal loyalty, which I think goes a long way. But they also feel like they're plugged into the bigger picture. They don't feel like they're just given a list of tasks to do, a list of numbers to hit. They feel like they are part of the broader, the broader growth of our company, which they are. We're depending on them.
>> I think it is very important for me that the owners are involved with the store. Hi, my name is Amanda. I'm Assistant Store Leader here at Flight One. Having worked for companies where the people who owned the company are the CEO is just some unknown person you might not even know their name that is on an office half way across the country. It's like here they actually visit their stores are involved in it, and it makes you feel like, look, it's important to them, it's important to me too. You know? I definitely worked places where I felt like the owners just didn't care and so it sort of, "if they don't care, why should I?" But I feel like they really value their store and it's -- it's contagious. If they're excited about what they're doing, then everyone else is as well. Sometimes I just have to pinch myself at how lucky I am to have grown in a small company where the owners are really tolerant of error. They're not tolerant of poor work ethic or if you're really not dedicated. But if you're there and you're really trying, it's really OK. They've been really patient with me with the learning process. And I think they recognize that I am bringing a talent to it that they -- that they aren't equipped to bring to it because of what they have to focus on. So -- it's not that it's better than nothing, but they do still recognize the contribution even if I'm not quite getting it right.
>> I think in an ideal world, in the ideal job setting, you would have both the dream salary and a ton of encouragement every single day. Hi. I'm Claire and I'm Store Leader here at Flight One. It's really important that you make enough to where you can pay the rent and get by, but, at the same time, you're quality of life really does suffer if you don't feel a connection with where you're spending your hours every single day. And if you don't feel like you're supported and like you're valued. And so I think it really is a combination of both. You need both.
>> We're still doing the Mr. and Mrs. Smith drawing.
>> Mm-hmm. I have struggled with motivation. You know, I've worked for companies where they've flat out said, you know, you're just a number. You can be replaced at any time. And when you're told something like that, why do you want to put any effort in? But, you know, what is in it for you? But in this company, I think they make an effort to show you that you're appreciated, you have a say in what goes on. You're given complements. You know, or you're told, you know, what you could be better at. You're given feedback.
>> I think the biggest thing that I try to think about is paying attention to what peoples' natural strengths are and really trying to use those in the store. Someone's really talented visually, definitely encouraging them to work with merchandising and placing the product in a way that's attractive. Someone's really great in terms of organization, operations, kind of delegating to them, letting them take on specific projects in that area.
>> Being respected and being taken seriously, having somebody listen to your ideas, that's something I take very seriously. If I don't feel that I'm being given a chance to express myself, if I don't feel that I'm being valued as an employee, I'm just less likely to stick around that place of employment. You know, I want to go somewhere where my skills and my hard work are valued. I don't want to go to a job where I just feel like I'm completely disrespected and taken for granted.
>> It really makes a difference to have people who are here in the store who you also have kind of built that positive rapport with. And it doesn't necessarily have to be something really personal where you share intimate details about your life. It can be something that's just a way of -- a pleasant way of working together, a way of interacting and bringing fun and humor into the setting. So it really makes a difference.
>> And how did the training go yesterday?
>> It went really really well.
>> I think he's going to be a really great fit here.
>> He'll be in again today at two.
>> To start.
>> we're very careful in hiring people to make sure that it's going to be a good fit for the company, that everybody will be able to work together really well. The store is such a small environment that you really have to get along with everyone. Everyone has to mesh really well.
>> One of the things I love about retail is that there's room for everybody in retail. Everybody who works at corporate and everybody who works in our stores are such an unbelievable variety of backgrounds and interests and that's what makes it interesting. And that's what our customers want quite frankly. They want to walk into a store and have people that are interesting that they can talk to. You know, they don't just want somebody chewing gum behind a register.
>> So, Emily, tell me what's going on with store number six, with the store leader leaving and --?
>> Well, we have good news. We talked to the store leader in the Berkeley store and, like we thought, she's really open to relocating.
>> Yeah. We think we can probably get her to be here as of August 1st even. And the double edge sword is a lot of times those interests come to the forefront in their lives and they need to make a life change and they end up, you know, leaving retail. Retail is temporary for a lot of people. I thought retail would be temporary for me. I'm completely shocked that I'm actually building a career in retail. I -- it was a total accident. I had no idea how much there could be to do. And there are some people in our stores, and I see that in them, and I know that, you know, they can really grow with us. And then there are other people that I'm always kind of watching like, OK, you know, maybe it's just temporary and that's OK. But I have to plan for some of them, you know, leaving.
Summary: For years Evo has supported athletic teams, but only recently did the Seattle-based e-commerce company launch a formal work team. The new group, which comprises a photographer, designer, and copywriter, is responsible for producing Evo’s magazine ads, promotions, and website content. To help the members learn to work together, Nathan Decker, director of e-commerce, became the team leader. As a skilled negotiator, Decker makes sure his talented trio steers clear of dysfunction and delivers the goods. Due to Decker’s leadership and skillful negotiation of conflicts, members of the creative services team are learning how to communicate in ways never before possible.
>> If you've got all these great ideas and you're an entrepreneur, then understand your limits. Like what are you good at? What are you not good at? Don't be afraid to let certain things go. I mean, to think that, you know, one thing we've been pretty good at if we can credit ourselves with anything is that we've really understood like, you know, where our talents lie and where we need to go out there and get the best talent to augment like what we're doing. My name is Bryce Fillips, and I am the founder of EVO. If someone like me was thinking about the burden of running every aspect, every operational aspect of the company, then we wouldn't be here. I mean, first of all, I'm not a good operator and there's certain structures that I don't bring to the table that you need in a good business.
>> So I think our organization is set up fairly well to accomplish the goals and strategies that we have in place. I think there's always room for improvement. My name is Nathan Decker, I am the senior human OD commerce at EVO.
>> One area that I can think of is our creative services team that we just started in the last three or four months. Before we had [inaudible], we had a graphic designer that lived over here in one department. We had a photographer that lived in another department. And then we had some copy editors that sort of did their own thing. So we've tried to consolidate those creative resources into one unit to hopefully find some synergies and improve the creative output. That's been a really tough challenge. And I think learning how to make the creative process more of a group reality has been a challenge. And I think that's somewhere that we continually need to work on.
>> I'd say the best example would be like working on a magazine ad together. Hi, I'm Tre, and I'm a photographer here and I'm part of our creative services team. If I just pick out images and they don't work out and the layout, it becomes a problem if the copy is super cute and friendly, but it's like a very core focused ad. I mean it's not going to come across as one unified ad.
>> What are the design priorities that we're working on right now?
>> I'm pretty sure that we're going to go with something new but extremely simple.
>> I think of Nathan a little bit as a leader of the team. He's more of a project sponsor and like he's more of a director, I'd say. Like he has specific numbers that he needs to hit and, you know, return on investment. And he definitely comes in to make sure that we're on task. Like do we need any more resources, what's going well, what's not working well? How can we speed up this process? How can we do things better? How can we work together better and get a quicker end product for less money?
>> And so how we've managed that so far, we're doing, we introduced a post mortem process for each project that we work on that talks about, you know, what happened, what went well, what didn't go well, and how can we do it better in the future?
>> And once you make owners for each of those categories, then the next one's just going to get better.
>> So I'm thinking about just talking about step by step what happened for the execution of the promo.
>> It really helps try to get some sort of uniform language in the team. We're doing a better job at like, oh, maybe you need the message isn't reading well. Or maybe you think that it's not popping off the page enough, you know, and we can fix that just by some contrast or adding some different elements. Instead of just, well, I'm obviously the expert. Why would you even suggest something stupid? It creates a mess. It's like middle school again. Try to get away from that. If something does happen, it's like, hey, you want to go grab a cup of coffee and like, you know, I was kind of hurt when you said this photo sucked. You know, I put a lot of work into it, and, you know, maybe you can talk about things I can do better instead of like why it sucked. Trying to think of positive feedback instead of just negative stuff I think is the biggest thing to focus on. We are such a new team and if we had someone right away that like structured it and made it easy like I don't think we would communicate as well together.
>> And this may come across as fairly, you know, weak, but we're trying to encourage people to talk about their priorities. And kind of raise a hand when they feel like the projects that have been put on them are too much. So that's, the honest is really on the manager to figure that out. But it's also on the employee to basically raise a flag and say, look, this is a little bit too much. And that's not met with any kind of combination or, you know, repercussion. It's just like, actually that's a good thing, thank you for bringing that up. Let's do that again.
>> Right now like although Nathan's trying to like lead us and direct us, it would be really awesome to have a creative director. It would make sense to have someone creative driven with great organizational skills that, you know, maybe not be an expert in every field but really understand how important each field is. So that they would process all the requests that come into our department and be able to be like, all right, this one's obviously the most important. This one's going to take more time.
>> Learning how to make the creative process more of a group reality has been a challenge. And I think that's somewhere that we continually need to work on.
>> Yeah, so we went through and talked about upcoming promotions. Both e mail promotions and website promotions. And it talked about who needs to deliver what by when to make sure.
>> If you're excited about a, you know, a market opportunity or a new concept or something that you think has legs, then identify that concept. You know, think about the right kind of people and the right kind of talent you need in the room to execute on a good plan. And then build that team. I mean, at the end of the day it's going to come down to the team of people. I mean, if, there's, I don't know one person that brings everything to the table and can the whole show. It just doesn't happen. You need to really understand what are you really good at? What gets you excited? What are you passionate about? And then make sure that you're bringing in kind of the right group of people to augment kind of what you're up to and then that's when you're able to really build something cool.
>> The sizing is kind of finicky when you get down to the youth sizing.
>> We have like a marketing kind of e-commerce department. We have a customer care team to take care of customers. We have a buying team that manages all of our inventory. We have an IT team that supports all the different needs of the business which are very diverse. And then we have a store staff that kind of meets the needs here locally. So, yeah, I mean, I think generally if you look at the buckets of, you know, the different areas of responsibility, they're pretty well defined to achieve a lot of our objectives. But there are paying points when you get more granular and you look at certain areas. So and those are the spots we're going to really work on improving.
>> Okay, great.
>> Saying that we're more efficient than our competitors is a bit of speculation. I don't know their books, I don't see their books. But I know that we are able to beat their prices by five percent. So the fact that we're able to do that and stay in business tells me we're doing something right.
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